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Get Free TrialMore about Spectra Assure Free TrialCurphey said that one CSO on their tour summed it up with a simple formulation:
He said, 'If you could tell me what to work on now, next, or never, I'd write you a check right now.'
At many companies, security teams often run their tools on a piece of code without knowing whether that code is deployed in production, whether it has security fixes waiting to be deployed, and whether it is touching personally identifiable information (PII) or running critical business processes.
Mark CurpheyAll they have is this kind of myopic view of vulnerabilities.
For many years, the only context available to organizations has been the criticality of vulnerabilities, but leaders seeking to prioritize their app sec efforts to gain better context about vulnerabilities — how they're deployed in the application stack, what kind of traffic is running through them, and how the application is used by the business. Curphey cited a game company he learned about during the tour.
Mark CurpheyThey have 6,300 repos, and they have no clue how many are in production. So they're scanning, and they're asking the developers to update the libraries in all 6,300. It's just noise. They don't need to be doing it. They don't know which ones are deployed into production, which ones have the highest traffic, or which one is touching PII.
Of all the contexts, knowing what is in production is one of the best ways to kill noise, the security leaders told Curphey.
Mark CurpheyI think everyone historically — me included with SourceClear — focused on vulnerable libraries, and absolutely they are a problem. But the reality is that most of the vulnerable libraries never get put into production, so therefore it is just noise. You don't actually have to deal with it.
The point was brought home by the CISO of a large financial services company.
Mark CurpheyThey didn't know what repos were in production but they knew the vast majority weren't, so they told me, 'The first thing we'd like to do before we do anything is just kill the noise at the source so that we don't have to figure out deduping and all of that other stuff.' Their take was, 'I can get rid of 95% of the problems right off the bat with that knowledge.
The general consensus from the listening tour on White House Executive Order 14028 on software bills of material (SBOMs) was that it is creating busywork for CISOs.
Mark CurpheyYou can generate one with your tool, but it's basically like writing your own doctor's certificate and signing it off yourself. It's totally easy to fake. Then, if you have one that happens at the build system, it is usually completely different than the one that's in the code repo and different from the one that runs in production, where you have hot loading and things like that.
SBOMs are useful when you have attestation "and you have confidence that this SBOM is generated here, that one there, and so on," Curphey said. He explained that the fire drill of Log4j showed weakness in the narrative about SBOM usefulness.
Most people sent folks around with clipboards trying to find out where it was. And even when it was in production, they found it was in test directories where it wasn't being called into production. They spent all of this time, shut down dev teams, and I think there's scar tissue for a lot of CISOs, who are saying, 'We can't rely on a lot of this. We can use [SBOMs] to help feed things, but ultimately they're not a source of truth.
Many of the observations from Curphey and Viega's tour have been folded into what Crash Override is doing with the release of its open-source security tool, Chalk, which collects metadata from build artifacts to provide queryable graphs that can help app sec teams get visibility into what part of a codebase is in production, as well as the context of how things are deployed.

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